This is the second shiur that was printed for Pesach, with R Shmuel Stern in conversation with the Rav.

It goes into more details about how the Rav was searching for spiritual truth before he stumbled over Breslov one Purim night in Bnei Brak, some 60 years ago.

It’s awesome, for a whole bunch of reasons. BH, I will translate the last bit of this second shiur some time in the next few days, but in the meantime, enjoy!

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Special Pesach Shiur with R Stern #2

R STERN: Two days ago, we spoke about R Natan Liebermensch, and the Rav told some stories. This was on the same day that he passed away. The Rav spoke about him in the morning, and afterwards we heard about the levoya (funeral).

R BERLAND: That’s totally correct. At 14:00, they said he had died. They buried him before shkeya (twilight). Shkeya was 17:55. Yes, we had just spoken about him.

R STERN: The Rav spoke about him that same morning, and the Rav said that he was like tongues of flame.

R BERLAND: He was fire!

There was fire, all the time. I stayed in Breslov in his merit. [In Breslov then] there were no young people, there was nothing. There were just a few elders, who didn’t realise what it [i.e. Breslov] really was. Everyone was a milkman or a painter. They didn’t have a lot of seichel (higher intelligence), or knowledge.

They didn’t have the Gemara – I didn’t see a single person learning Gemara.

R’ Shmuel Shapira was the only one who learned Gemara, I used to learn chevruta with him. For two or three years, I learned chevruta with him every day, between 13:30 and 15:30.

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R STERN: But they were ovdei Hashem (servants of Hashem), they used to wake up for chatzot, and to say the Tikkun Chatzot.

R BERLAND: Yes. Everyone got up for chatzot, there was no-one without chatzot. And also prayed with niggunim, and they used to dance 45 minutes.

R STERN: Even though they were baalei batim (i.e. unlearned Jews)!

R BERLAND: Even though they were baalei batim, they had dvekut, like burning fire. I used to watch tongues of flame come out of them, and burning around them. [They were all] elders, aged 80 or 90. Their children, either they became chilonim or they went to Gur.

The children of Natan Sternhartz [descendant of R Natan of Breslov] went to Gur. He doesn’t have a single child [i.e. descendant] here [still in Breslov]. Because they didn’t see anything in Breslov, whoever was here, they didn’t see the inner fire [of Breslov].

The child didn’t see it. [In order to demonstrate the ‘fire’] you need niggunim and enthusiasm, to show something externally, mamash.

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So, everyone went to Gur.

Until ‘Mordechai Turetz’ showed up, and opened the first [Breslov] cheder. Without Mordechai Turetz, there would be nothing here. There wasn’t anything. We opened a yeshiva for baalei teshuva, but there was no-one to guide the children of the old timers. Mordechai Turetz opened a cheder for them, and Shimon Bergstein made a yeshiva for them.

R Shimon vowed a vow.

He was in Siberia, and he was sentenced to death. [So he vowed] If I get out alive, I will build a yeshiva.

After he was saved, he used to go around from 8am until 8 at night, from house to house, to collect money. He learned in the Novhardok yeshiva, and everyone was a farmer, who worked the land, and land owners.

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I used to travel to their farm in Ta’anach.

Once, someone sent me on a shiva call to Ta’anach, and there was a miracle that I got there before Shabbat. I left at 13:00, and it was the month of Tevet (typically, January time). And Shabbat was at 16:30 – it was already shekeya, I’d been travelling for two hours. I was there for half an hour, and I came back.

Who took me from there was a taxi, who went as far as Afula. And from there, I got on a bus to Tel Aviv, and from there, to Bnei Brak.

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Shimon Bergstein was a maggid shiur[1] in Novhardok, that was on the hill on Rokeach [St.?]

All of his students were big, wealthy people. He had landowners, who made millions. He used to travel to them, and he used to go even in the snow. All of his shoes used to be filled with water, and he used to wring out his socks. Every hour, he needed to go into the hallways and wring out his socks, because floods [of rain] used to come down.

Today, there are already no floods. The floods have ended.

[But in the past, there were floods of rain], and especially, Bnei Brak got more rain than Jerusalem, because it’s lower down. He built this yeshiva [for Breslov] with mesirut nefesh. He said I don’t want debts, I am going to travel around 24 hours until I’ve amassed the daily amount.

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He used to give a shiur at 07:00 on tehillim, then 8:00 to 08:30, he’d give another shiur, and then he would leave [to collect money].

I went to every shiur, for 20 years, from 5722 (1962) until 5742 (1982).

And he also used to give over a shiur on Daf Yomi, at the Agudat Yisrael synagogue, on Rav Ammi Street, by R Natan Geshtetner[2]. He used to tell him, you give over the daf yomi. [R Natan Geshtetner, author of the] LeHorot Natan. His yahrtzeit is written here. R Natan Geshtetner was the biggest tzaddik in Bnei Brak. There was not a tzaddik like this, since the world was created. It was called the ‘Agudah Neighborhood’, Ravina and Rav Ashi [streets]. The Vizhnitz synagogue was there, the corner of Rav Ashi and the Damesek Eliezer [streets].

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Every day, I used to go to the Vizhnitz mikveh, every day.

They used to open the mikveh at 1am, we used to immerse, then go out to the fields. It was truly an experience. After Givat Shmuel, everything [around Bnei Brak at that time] was fields. I used to pass all the houses, and get to the houses. Today, it’s already a complete city.

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R STERN: I heard that the Rav used to go a few times in a single night, to take different people to the fields?

R BERLAND: Yes. I would take other bachurim, and more bachurim. Every bachur (young man) needed to do hitbodedut. We would go to the Yarkon on foot, by the Yarkon there, we would do hitbodedut. The Yarkon is the most beautiful place that there is, in the world. Trees, cypresses, fruit trees, oranges, fields.

This sort of hitbodedut I’d never had in my life, before. We need to go back there. When we were in Bnei Brak, it was mamash Gan Eden.

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Every day, we would travel to Yosef HaTzaddik, from 5727 (1967).

From 5722 (1962), I became Breslov, and that’s when I got to the Breslov yeshiva in Bnei Brak. I was still learning in Volozhin, until 5730, I learned in Volozhin. But I was already praying ma’ariv there [in Breslov]. I was awake the whole night there.  I used to learn in Volozhin between 09:00 to 13:00, because I was awake the whole night. Afterwards, I’d go and rest a bit.

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And R’ Liebermensch used to give me chizzuk, back then.

I was his most beloved student. I used to follow him through fire and water, I was stuck to him. I used to be in his house every day. If I used to shecht a chicken, he used to examine it for me. We were Brisk, only Brisk.

I learned in the Chazon Ish Kollel for three years.

And afterwards, in Volozhin, and also in Ponevezh, I learned. And I always used to feel that something was missing, for me. There was still not the ‘inner dimension’. I wanted to feel Hashem. I was searching for where it was possible to feel Hashem.

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And then on Purim, I said to Rabbanit Tehilla: This Purim, I am going to find the truth.

I went to Karlin, I went to Gur, a few years, I was by Gur, from the age of 17 and a half until age 24. I used to go to Hevron, sleep in Hevron, pray with Gur on Shabbat. Afterwards, the Beit Yisrael went to Haifa, so I used to pray with him.

I tried everything!

Rachmastrivka, Belz – I tried them, I was by all the chassiduts.

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Until Purim arrived.

I prayed [on Purim night] on Halperin [Street], it’s underneath Chazon Ish [Street].

Halperin – they built the whole of Zichron Meir, Meir Halperin. This was after ma’ariv, I heard the reading of the megillah on Halperin, and then I went home. It was already 22:00 at night, and that’s when I said to the Rabbanit:

Now, I am going to uncover the truth. Today, Hashem is going to show me the truth, where is the real truth! Where is the ‘inner dimension’ of the Torah, by who. Where there is the inner dimension!

Everything was without the inner dimension.

It was shows, ‘simcha’, dancing – OK, but there is no inner dimension. And so then, I went to Lelov.

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Up until then, I’d been a Lelover chassid for a whole year.

I used to go the seuda shlishi[3]. I used to leave, let’s say 18:30 was when the first stars came out. The neighbor Ben Baruch who was a big millionaire, and who had a villa – today, it’s the Ramat Aharon neighborhood. I used to go with him.

It was five minutes from the house, I would wait for him 5-10 minutes, he would make havdalah, and then we would go together to 35 Shmuel Mohilever Street, the Shapira neighborhood. There was a building there, and he bought the building. We would come to seuda shlishi with songs.

A whole year, I was by Lelov. I used to talk with the Rebbe Moshe Mordechai [Biderman], and afterwards, they moved to Jerusalem Street in Bnei Brak.

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[The Rav returns to the story of how he came to Breslov on Purim night].

So back then, I said: That’s enough, I’m leaving now.

They had a group of drunks who were reading the megillah while clowning around. I said this is not for me. Now, I am finished with Lelov.Now, we are going to move forward, we’re going to go to Vizhnitz!

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Before this, I had been at the Vizhnitzh tisch for three years, by the Imrei Chaim, three years every Friday night.

Motzae Shabbat, I travelled to Lelov, and Friday night I was by Vizhnitz, until 1am, at the tisch. I used to sing with them, but I didn’t use to share in the shir-rayim.[4] I didn’t like to take part in the shir-rayim. In that respect, I remained a Litvak.

I couldn’t stand it. I used to sit and survey [the scene], and afterwards I would go to the Rebbe, to discuss with him. It was like this for three years, from 5719 (1959) to 5722 (1962).

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Back then, I said to myself on Purim night, now, I’m going.

Because also there [at Lelov], I saw that everyone was drunk, and reading the megillah whilst clowning around.

By me, the megillah is like Yom Kippur. In Breslov, they used to cry throughout the whole megillah. You can see Mordechai and Esther in the megillah, mamash, it’s possible to see Mordechai and Esther, chaim v’kayamim (living and alive). The whole day, you can see Mordechai and Esther.

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That Purim night, when I left Lelov, it was already 23:30.

I had to walk for another 45 minutes, to the central bus station. [The Rav left his house at 22:30], I walked for 45 minutes, and I got there by 23:15, exactly when a group of drunks showed up to read the megillah. They still hadn’t read the megillah.

I said to myself, by me, the reading of the megillah means fear and trembling! I’d be trembling from fear, I’d be weeping. I’d feel how everyone should be trembling – but everyone was fooling around and making jokes, and this didn’t find favour in my eyes.

Because I was from the Chazon Ish kollel, and I was looking for the innermost of the inner dimension.

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I went on foot back they way I’d come, half an hour, and I took the last bus at 12am, Number 54 – it only got to Chazon Ish, the corner of R’ Akiva. I asked the driver, can you drive a little bit further, what do you care?

He told me, I can’t change the route, that’s how it is. I have to stop here, Chazon Ish, the corner of Rabbi Akiva. This is the last stop, and you need to get off.

Tov. I got off at Chazon Ish.

I knew [the street] already, I’d learned there for three years. I was a true ‘Chazon Ish-nik’, I used to keep all the chumrot (stringencies). I didn’t use to eat bread [after Pesach], just matzah and apples, from after Shvi’i shel Pesach until Shavuot. I didn’t use to eat anything, no food.

Also on Pesach, I only used to eat apples, and a little bit of matzah on Shabbat. And a few cooked vegetables, in case they’d put chametz in something. I was like that for three years. I was very strict about the chumrot.

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So, I got off at Chazon Ish, the corner of Rabbi Akiva, next to Chazon Ish Kollel.

And then, they told me go to Vizhnitz, you don’t know what’s going on there. Dancing, drinking, laughter – I already hadn’t slept for two nights, how was i meant to go there?!

I used to live on Sarah Shnirer Street, next to HaRav Dessler Street, there is Sarah Shnirer. There, there used to be a pinimiya (boarding school) for girls, and the Rabbanit was the House Mother. We got a a huge apartment, and we were there for a whole year, until they let her go, and then we returned to Shikun 5.

TBC

Excerpted and translated from the Pesach Supplement of Shivivei Or, 5786.

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FOOTNOTES:

[1] A person who gives over shiurim in different locations.

[2] The local Rabbi of the Agudat Yisrael neighborhood in Bnei Brak.

[3] Third meal on Shabbat, typically where the chassidic rebbes do a tisch for their followers.

[4] Remnants of the food eaten, touched or blessed by the rebbe, which is shared out to his followers.